Recorded: May 19, 2022

Snap Out of It! talked with Geralyn Giorgio about an incredible program she created for employees with mental illness and employee caregivers at Johnson & Johnson. We talk about her personal experience with mental illness, why she’s driven to help others affected by mental illness, and how the group she created can be rolled out in your workplace. Get ready to want to take action!

(Note: At one point, host Natasha Tracy mentions seeing a presentation by “Jim Cramer.” This was a mistake. She meant “Craig Cramer.” Our apologies to Mr. Cramer.)

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About Geralyn Giorgio

Geralyn Giorgio has spent over 20 years at Johnson & Johnson and currently leads Change Management for the Global Services North America Region and transformational programs, such as Intelligent Automation and Data Transformation.

In April 2017, Geralyn founded the Mental Health Diplomats, a core part of the Alliance for Diverse Abilities Employee Resource Group, for employees living with mental health conditions and caregivers.

Geralyn has been a Stability Network Leader for several years and currently is a proud Board Member of The Stability Network organization. Our Mission is to inspire and encourage people experiencing mental health challenges to thrive.     

Prior to this position, Geralyn was Head of Change Management, Communications & Training for HireUp in Talent Acquisition, led the Organization & Talent cross-functional workstream for Enterprise Standards and Productivity, and held multiple Human Resource Business Partner roles in diverse businesses across J&J.

Geralyn holds a BA in Psychology from Rutgers University.  She is a Certified Professional Coach through the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching (IPEC).  She is an Associate Certified Coach (ACC) and a Member of the International Coach Federation (ICF).  Geralyn has a certification in change management from PROSCI and is certified in Mental Health First Aid.

Transcript

(This transcript is auto-generated. Please excuse the mistakes.)

Natasha Tracy (00:30):
Hello folks. My name is Natasha Tracy, and you are tuned in to Snap Out of It! The Mental Illness in the Workplace Podcast. Hello, I’m so glad to see all of you for my inaugural podcast. Today, we are talking to Geralyn Georgio, who is a director of change management and communications at Johnson and Johnson. Geralyn has done an incredible feat. She has spearheaded a group for employees with mental illness and employee caregivers at Johnson and Johnson. This program is now being used by thousands of people around the globe. She’s gonna talk to us about how she did this. Her own experience was with mental illness as well. And don’t forget this is live. So we are going to be taking your questions, just go ahead and pop any of your thoughts into the comment box. And we may just answer them on air, but before we get to Geralyn, just one moment, I just wanna remind people of a couple of things.

Natasha Tracy (01:24):
And the first thing is that mental health in the workplace is a very important topic and that’s because 100% of people have mental health. Everyone from the janitor to the CEO can improve their mental health, but a group of people often gets left out of that conversation. And that’s people with mental illness about 20% of people. So that’s about one in five. People have a diagnosable mental illness in any given year from ADHD to anxiety, to bipolar disorder. These illnesses range from mild to severe. And these 20% of people need to be a part of any mental health conversation. And that’s what we’re doing here. We are making those of us with a mental illness, the center of this particular podcast.

Natasha Tracy (02:10):
So, let’s get to our guest. Hello, Geralyn, welcome to snap out of it.

Geralyn Giorgio (02:15):
Hello, Natasha. Thank you so much for having me today.

Natasha Tracy (02:19):
I’m honored. I’m honored to speak with you. So tell me a little bit about yourself and your role at Johnson and Johnson.

Geralyn Giorgio (02:26):
Sure. So I’ve been at Johnson and Johnson. I can’t believe it it’ll be 25 years this year in September. And I’ve been in different types of jobs for that period of time. For about 17 years, I was an HR business partner and then over the last six or seven years, I’ve been focused more on specialist types of roles in organizational development and now in change management. So I work in the global services organization within Johnson and Johnson in change management. So I live with depression. So I have lived experience with depression as well as an eating disorder. I’m a certified coach. I can talk a little bit more of that. About that later. I do ensure that I make time for fitness in the morning because that really does help me to manage my depression. I will be married on June 11th, so to the love of my life. And I’m very excited about that. I thought I would never find him. And I finally did after 40 something years, but we are a blended family and we have three daughters, 1820 and 21 who are all in college and a son who’s 23. So that’s a little bit about myself.

Natasha Tracy (03:45):
Thank you so much. Well, congratulations on getting married. That’s amazing. Thank you. So you’re doing really well today and it’s amazing to hear about that, but I understand that back in 2015 things weren’t going so well for you. Can you tell us a little bit about what was happening for you back then?

Geralyn Giorgio (04:02):
Sure. back in 2015, I had what I’ll call a mental health breakdown. I was in an HR the time and had a very difficult client group. It was very demanding and at the same time that year I was going through a divorce and my children were young. They were nine and 12 at that period of time. And I felt myself really, really struggling. I had always been a high performer at J and J. So for me to admit to myself, not out loud, that I was struggling was devastating and I was just filled with, with shame. So my bulimia was outta control that year. I had, I, I was ex definitely depressed. It was difficult for me to go outside and water the plants for example. And it was a way of numbing myself. I was going through a lot of pain and I just wanted the pain to go away.

Geralyn Giorgio (05:08):
So the more that I was eating and getting rid of the food the more depressed I had become, and I became very isolated. I had felt extremely alone. I really didn’t tell anybody. I didn’t even tell my own family that I was going through this. And I distinctly remember coming home after I had been divorced at the courthouse. I came in and walked upstairs into my bathroom and I looked in the mirror and I looked at that person and I’m like, I don’t recognize who that is. And I wanted to take my own life. I was feeling so much pain at that time and it was difficult for me to ask for help because I thought, you know, I’ve been an HR director before, you know, I’ve told people how to coach them and, and refer them over to the employee assistance program. And I couldn’t even do that for myself. So I was not able to handle it alone. And as I was looking in the mirror, I thought, you know, my, my children do need me and I put down picked up the phone and I called the employee assistance program. And that’s when I first got help. And that was the latter part of 2015.

Natasha Tracy (06:33):
Well, I’m so sorry to hear that you went through such a difficult time. I have been there. So I do know what it’s like to want to take your life. And I know what it’s like to be in a high performing job while you’re doing it. It’s a very, very challenging thing. And certainly by not telling anyone you’re not alone, right. People out there are watching right now and they’re having that struggle. And they’re not telling anyone either. So by you stepping forward and saying it happened to me and it honestly can happen to anyone. You’re doing such a great service. So thank you. So many of us who have had depression or another mental illness will tell you that motivation is a huge problem for us. So what exactly motivated you to develop a group of employees that are affected by mental illness to get that group together?

Geralyn Giorgio (07:27):
So I would say the catalyst for me is after 2015, the beginning of 2016 was really what changed my life mm-hmm . And I went through a coaching program. I think I was at a time where I really didn’t know what I wanted to do. I didn’t know if I wanted to be in corporate America. I was very depressed and I thought I need to have another skill. And I was fortunate to go through this coaching program where I became a certified professional coach. And that was the first time in my entire life that I actually worked on myself. And I sat with the pain that I was pushing away and didn’t wanna face for so many years. And that was really life changing for me. And then I was sitting in an audience. So at Johnson and Johnson, we have a Ted talk event.

Geralyn Giorgio (08:23):
And I was in the audience and I was listening to a gentleman by the name of Craig Kramer, who is giving a talk about mental health. And I was listening to his story and it was the first time that this was, anybody was talking about mental health in the workplace. And he was sharing a story about his daughter who had an eating disorder. So immediately I was sitting on the edge of my seat and, and it was just everything he was saying was resonating. And talking about how mental health is, is the new cancer. So after that talk, I was, I, I just sat back and I said, I, I need to meet him. I need to go and, and speak with him. And I had an appointment, met with him, and I just felt that I needed to help other people I wanted to do. I had to do something that was much bigger than myself. I wanted to create a movement. So people can talk about mental health in the workplace openly and not have any repercussions or not have that fear at least. Yeah. So that’s what started.

Natasha Tracy (09:33):
That’s, that’s extraordinary. So many people, like I said, have been in your position, but very few of us can take that next step and go, I just wanna help other people. So thank you for doing that. I know clearly thousands of people at your company would thank you. And I’ve actually met Craig Kramer. And he’s amazing. so so I think if people can go and see his talk, it’s great.

Natasha Tracy (09:59):
So you are watching Snap Out of It! With me, Natasha Tracy, and Geralyn Giorgio. And don’t forget if you have any questions, don’t forget to put them in the comments box and I’ll see about asking them in just a little bit.

Natasha Tracy (10:15):
So I understand there is a group at Johnson Johnson called the Mental Health Diplomats. It’s part of the Alliance for Diverse Abilities Employee Resource Group. And I’m actually not familiar with employee resource groups personally, but they often are shortened to ERG. So can you tell us a little bit about the Mental Health Diplomats?

Geralyn Giorgio (10:37):
Sure. So when Craig and I started this ERG or the idea to start an employee resource group that had to do with mental health, it took about, I would say nine months for us to get off the ground. And we ended up combining with another ERG called the Alliance for Disability Leadership. And underneath that ERG was already disability and autism. So we added the mental health component of that. And then over the course of 2017, after we launched in April, the name disability leadership was not resonating for everyone was, was in our employee resource group. So we ended up rebranding it to the Alliance for Diverse Abilities. So this way everyone felt included because at some point everyone has a diverse ability and we all bring different skills and talent to the workplace. And that’s what we really wanted it to be about. So our vision on the mental health side is a world where mental health challenges are well understood in society.

Geralyn Giorgio (11:52):
They’re treated rapidly, they’re managed. And if possible, prevented in our mission is that we’re gonna put Johnson and Johnson at the forefront of promoting mental health for all. So our mental health diplomats are a group now of over almost two, 3000 people. We started with less than a hundred. We started with a group of people that actually reached out to Craig in that Ted talk and said, if you’re gonna do anything around mental health, please put me on your distribution lip. I wanna help. So we started with that group and then it was amazing how quickly, and I don’t think we anticipated how quickly it was going to grow. And we are now, like I mentioned, about 3000 people in 79 countries around the world. And we’re a common passionate group of people who just wanna make a difference in mental health, by educating employees and encouraging the use of resources that companies have like an employee resource program, raising awareness from a cultural standpoint about mental health in the workplace, what it is and what it is not fostering a culture, culture of inclusion at Johnson and Johnson by removing this stigma, or at least helping to remove that stigma often associated with mental health challenges and promoting J and J is this employer of choice for people who wanna come and work for us and know that we have this employee resource group and we care for our employees and we care for those, their, their families and overall advancing the mental health goals for our company.

Geralyn Giorgio (13:38):
So inside the mental health diplomats, there are 14 focus areas. So when we started, we didn’t have these. And all of a sudden we had people come forward and say, I wanna start a smaller group about grief, depression, bipolar, anxiety, suicide, eating disorders. So it grew to about 14 of these focused areas where a group of people create work very closely with the, our global health services organization to create awareness and events. Like for example, in February is eating disorder awareness week. Yeah. And that is a week where our team goes out and we have an event, a global event, and we do something to create awareness specifically around eating disorders. So our priorities for 2022 this year is that we are focusing on talent where we’re weaving an inclusion into our, our hiring process and including that component of, of mental health as well as, as disabilities.

Geralyn Giorgio (14:46):
So we’re putting a, a really big focus on that. And as well as the community engaging and educating our employees, there’s so much change going on right now in the organization in society. We know change is a constant and people, you know, there’s change fatigue out there and we’re trying to help people to get through these transitions. So by taking care of themselves and educating themselves about mental, mental health in the workplace, the other big thing that we get involved in is world mental health day and may being mental health awareness month. So thank you for having me on your podcast during this in incredible month of, of creating awareness and education. And then finally I would say that we partner at the hip with global health services and they really provide an array of training that our employees can take around mental health, mental health, awareness, and wellbeing.

Natasha Tracy (15:52):
That’s all incredible. I wanna make one little comment there and that’s about the word disability. I fully respect that, that does not reflect some people’s experience with mental health and a mental health or mental illness. But I also wanna say that I have a disability because of bipolar disorder and the word’s not a bad word. Some people are disabled by mental illness and it’s okay. That level of disability could be smaller or it could be larger, but that word is not a bad word. Some people are disabled, we need to accept that. And that can even happen in the workplace. That person can be disabled and they need a modified working environment that can absolutely happen. So I just wanna mention that while I respect the change in verbology I also wanna mention that that’s not a bad word.

Natasha Tracy (16:40):
Um so I think what you’re doing there, you’ve, you’ve taken on almost the world. right. So what are the benefits to the people who actually participate in this particular group?

Geralyn Giorgio (16:55):
So I think some of the benefits are that they’re a part of a community. They’re a part of something where they’re talking to people who actually understand what they’re going through, whether they have a mental health condition themselves, or maybe they have loved ones, family members, friends who are going through these similar challenges that they can get support from this beautiful community of 3000 people. They’re getting support for their families, for their friends, for themselves, mental health resources, also it’s rewarding sharing their own. When they have joined our employee resource group, I had a lot of people come up and say, I wanna share my story. The next time we have a town hall, or if we have a, we have, we have monthly calls as a global community. People wanna share their story and start to help other people. And I think it also helps people to know that they’re not alone and it it’s a way to really help them heal and certainly helped me to heal in my mental health journey.

Natasha Tracy (18:04):
Yeah. And I just wanna say by taking such an overt position, which I think is what you’re doing your group and and this particular organization is doing, it makes it that much harder to actually discriminate against people with mental illness. We were talking about this just briefly before we went on air. And I said, I’ve seen discrimination because of mental illness. But when you have, when a company has a really overt position about mental illness, people are that much more protected. People are that much more safe. And people feel that much safer talking about their own struggle, just like you said. So it’s actually beneficial 360 degrees with that kind of overt position.

Geralyn Giorgio (18:42):
Absolutely.

Natasha Tracy (18:44):
So I just wanna ask you how you personally have benefited from being a part of that group.

Geralyn Giorgio (18:50):
Sure. I think it was absolutely part of my healing process to help to stand this ERG up also with the pandemic. So we had launched in 2017, and then a couple of years later, we hit the, our global pandemic. And we know that there are, there were many people with mental health challenges during that period of time, myself included. And I went into a, a very, very dark place. I was so excited at first on March 13th, which was my birthday. when the company announced we are not going back to work, we’re gonna be working from home. I was like, yes, I can work out every day. I can have a flexible schedule. This is great. And unfortunately my brain was telling me something completely different and I became very, very depressed and leaning on this community of people really, really was very helpful to me.

Geralyn Giorgio (19:52):
We started to have these open mic sessions. So we were new with the zoom technology. So we would do the breakout sessions and people would share what they were feeling and what they were doing to help them get through their depression or their anxiety. So we found that that connection piece was extremely helpful for many people, including myself. And I think being involved in this, what I’ll call a startup at J and J we were navigating through unchartered waters with, we had a leadership team that was very persistent about making a difference within the, the company and outside of the company. And through that process, I just met the most amazing people around the world and have met some of my very, very best and good friends through this community today.

Natasha Tracy (20:51):
That’s amazing support groups, as we know, outside of the workplace can be gold for people, a hundred percent. I suggest to people that they join support groups quite frequently, whether they be online or in person, but taking those support groups into a workplace almost feels scary because you are adding your employment on top of your emotional support, right? So there’s almost a scary piece there, but you’ve managed to tackle that. And because you’ve tackled it, you’ve found that there are such benefits. So I think that speaks highly for how we, as people connect with each other and how we talk to each other and how we can support each other. Cuz it’s not just about a resource as in reading a webpage, it’s not about, it’s not even just about going to see a doctor. It’s also about finding out that there are people just like you and that’s hugely powerful

Geralyn Giorgio (21:45):
And I’ve learned that being vulnerable is okay. Yeah. That there’s nothing wrong with that. And in fact, I really do believe being a good leader that having that vulnerability is so incredibly important to build that trust with people that credibility with people. So I found that being my authentic self was something that I just wanted to do. I didn’t wanna wear a mask anymore and I wanted to take it off and just be myself.

Natasha Tracy (22:17):
I love that. I certainly have struggled with authenticity in the workplace for sure. I tend, I, I was not a person who tended to do that. Like I’ll just admit it. I tended to compartmentalize and I found it really important to do that. That being said for people who can actually authentically experience one person . So at work and at home I do think that’s extraordinary for the person and their mental health. So thank you for leading the way with that and showing people that it can be done. So can you tell us a little bit about how this ERG actually benefits Johnson and Johnson?

Geralyn Giorgio (22:55):
Sure. I think in a couple of ways, I think through creating this awareness around mental health, we are making progress. We are definitely not there. You know, we, we put a, a dent in it, but we have made progress and we can see that employees are getting the help that they need earlier rather than being put on a performance improvement plan when it’s too late. And then, you know, it’s hard to come out of that. So we’re advocating for people to get help early, early on in the process and to be educated. So in terms of helping J and J I think that this ERG can help decrease absenteeism, short people going out on short term disability, performance issues and increase engagement and productivity in, in their roles, especially if they feel like they’re being seen and that their manager in particular cares for them that they ask when they ask, how are you doing today? That it’s just not a question, but it’s a really meaningful question that I could be openly. I can share what’s going on with me. I might not be having a good day and it’s okay not to be okay. So I think employees are bringing their authentic selves into the workplace as a result of some of these conversations that we have started.

Natasha Tracy (24:29):
I think there’s a big word there that you didn’t quite mention, but you did talk about, and that’s presenteeism, right? So that’s like a new word that people are talking about where people do actually go to work when they’re not feeling well, when they should be at home when they should be getting help. But they have to be there because of the money because of their position because of the people around them, whatever it is. But they’re not actually being productive because they really need help in some other way. And that’s, you know, and that’s something that, you know, we’ve talked about that, you know, people in workplaces do talk about because obviously presenteeism the person’s there, their body is there, but their brain is not it’s off somewhere else. And that hurts not only them, of course, but the people around them, as well as you’re saying it’s it’s, it’s, it’s a productivity thing. And I think that even if you feel that helping people is right ethically, and of course I think it is it’s also good from a company perspective and I, you know, from a bottom line perspective, there are both of those aspects of play.

Geralyn Giorgio (25:32):
Absolutely. Totally agree.

Natasha Tracy (25:35):
And so how did you grow this group from a hundred people who saw a talk to thousands of people around the globe? How did you do that?

Geralyn Giorgio (25:45):
Well, I think it, it was a lot of passionate employees who really wanted to, to make a difference. And we had started with mental health training. So we went through, we had advertised mental health, first aid, and it was an eight hour certification program that we had offered. And it was through those trainings that I had met people. And I had asked them for those who really seem to be so engaged and incredibly passionate, asked them to be a part of the leadership team. So getting a leadership team in place also through senior leaders talking about mental health, I mean, it wasn’t that they weren’t doing that back in 2017, but through I think the work that we’ve been doing and just talking to leaders and Craig in his role as mental health for J and J talking to leaders, it’s been amazing to see how many of them are, are talking about it today, which I think is really, really important for their employees to see also we were growing, I mentioned before, so just so large, more than we we could handle.

Geralyn Giorgio (27:07):
So we knew that we had to build an infrastructure and get that in place. So we built we had regional ADA chapters that were established country chapters, geographical chapters around ADA, and that really helped to engage people more locally. So we were thinking globally at the enterprise level, but also had these chapters that were, were local, where people could really engage more on a, a personal level. The other thing I think was helpful is the world mental health day, just getting people rallied around. Especially that first year that we were all together as a leadership team. We did some events in, in each of our sites. We built like a, a guidebook that people in different sites could execute on different events and create awareness around mental health. And there were 22 sites that participated in 2017. In 2019, there were over 150 sites across J and J that were participating.

Geralyn Giorgio (28:16):
So it was amazing to see how it had grown so quickly in just a few years. And then in 2020 and 2021, when we were in the pandemic, we did a global mobilization. And that was really helpful because we got our senior leaders involved. We actually won the Guinness book of world records for the largest meditation of 11,000 people around the world. So it was really, really cool so that it created a lot of buzz in the organization. And people just wanted to, to learn more about what we were doing and our purpose and what, what we were, what we stand for.

Natasha Tracy (28:57):
I was once part of the world record for the most paper airplanes in the air at one time, yours is better. , that’s great time.

Natasha Tracy (29:10):
So folks, you are listening to snap out of it. And we are still taking your questions, please pop them in the comments box and I’ll get to them in just a minute.

Natasha Tracy (29:19):
So my understanding is you also belong to an external nonprofit group called the Stability Network. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Geralyn Giorgio (29:27):
Sure. I became a Stability Network leader. Actually, Craig had connected me into this nonprofit organization and it was, I think it was 2017 when I became a leader when I started the employee resource group. And now I’ve become a board member just a few years ago. And we’re people in the workplace who are successfully living with a mental health condition and we’re sharing our stories and are lived experience to help other people like us to recover faster and to stay well longer in the workplace. And that to create hope that there is hope out there. So we speak at organizations at companies I’ve been on panel discussions around mental health and again, sharing our, our own lived experience.

Natasha Tracy (30:19):
So if someone were to contact the stability network, they could have someone from that network come in and speak. Is that right?

Geralyn Giorgio (30:25):
Yes.

Natasha Tracy (30:26):
Yes. Okay.

Natasha Tracy (30:28):
So it sounds like that’s a really great resource for people as well. Yes. So what do you think the biggest lesson is you’ve actually learned from these groups?

Geralyn Giorgio (30:39):
Well, I think the biggest lesson I learned through this journey first for myself, I would say that I’m worthy of happiness for a long time. I felt that I was just not worthy and I had the ability to rewrite and recreate my story through standing up this, the mental health diplomats and the lessons I learned from this whole ERG experience is that you really can make a difference. It takes a lot of hard work. I mean, believe me, it wasn’t easy. I had my regular full-time job and this was a volunteer role that I had as the mental health diplomat leader. So it was a lot of passion, a lot of hard work. And we, our team would not take no for an answer. So it was always about how can we make something work? So for example, we recorded three employee stories that first year that and myself included that had a lot of sensitive information where some, an employee talked about suicide and a lot of sensitivity, but we worked very closely with our legal group to say, okay, it’s not about you can’t do this, but let’s talk about how we can do this.

Geralyn Giorgio (31:57):
And with like a disclaimer that we put in front of the video, it had to be a voluntary thing that people could watch. It couldn’t be shown for example, in a town hall meeting that we were able to do this and get those stories out there. So I’ve learned to be persistent, which has been a really good thing.

Natasha Tracy (32:20):
Well, thank goodness you were persistent and thank goodness you had people who were creative thinkers because a lot of legal teams, I think would’ve just said no, and obviously, you know, you didn’t take no for an answer and somebody thought creatively about how they could make it a yes. Or they could make it a sometimes, or they could make it a maybe or whatever, but they didn’t make it a no. That’s amazing. So finally, what would you say to other people who wanna start a group just like you did?

Geralyn Giorgio (32:49):
I would say probably one of the most important things is to get an executive sponsor who can walk this journey with you, an influence other people. I was very lucky in that I had Craig and that I had his leader. So the head of our neuroscience group at the time and other senior leaders who were very much bought in, into standing this organization up. So there needs to be that commitment at the top, from leadership to support it while also building that grassroots effort at the bottom. So building that core leadership team with passionate employees, I think really critical who are committed to actually doing the work. And they’re not just a member of the employee resource group. They actually have to do the work, engage other people around the company to help because there is no way that, that you can do it alone. And I would say partner with your global health services, if you have them employee assistance program, your legal organization we’re a very conservative company in some respects. So to your point, it’s, you know, they wanted to make this happen. They wanted us and championed us to get the, the word out there. And that’s something you need those influencers, you need those advocates in order to make it happen.

Natasha Tracy (34:15):
Thank you. I certainly hope that somebody out there hears that and, and it twigs for them that maybe they can do it too, because more companies need that type of group, that type of environment where people can reach out to each other.

Natasha Tracy (34:30):
So there have been a few questions that have come in. So I do wanna ask you a few different things, so sure. First of all we’ve got a question from TK. Hi, how you doing? Do people have to self-identify that they have a mental health disorder before joining the ERG? And then how does that impact employment such a conservative industry?

Geralyn Giorgio (34:52):
So no people do not have to self identify. Absolutely not. But like you were said before, Natasha, that having a disability is not a bad word, it’s not a bad thing. So when you join the company, you have the option to identify having a disability, whether it’s a physical disability or a mental disability, I happen to identify as someone with a mental disability, but we do not require this. So it is voluntary for people to want to do that. If they’re comfortable identifying themselves as such, then they can do that. But anyone is welcome to belong and come be a part of our employee resource group. And even if they’re coming in being an ally.

Natasha Tracy (35:44):
Yeah. And I, I mentioned briefly employee caregivers. I, so that’s part of the conversation that I, I haven’t delved deeply in, but I believe that has included in your resource group. Is that right?

Geralyn Giorgio (35:57):
That’s correct. So it’s not only helping employees with who have a, a mental health condition themselves, but it’s there’s so I would say there’s so many more employees in the organization who are caring for people who are caregivers and we are, are helping them as well. And they’re, they’re absolutely a part of our organization.

Natasha Tracy (36:19):
Perfect. Thank you. So earlier a Facebook user hi, Marion she asked this question, so do you think there’s a downside to creating or participating in these kinds of groups?

Geralyn Giorgio (36:33):
I would say , I would say the downside could be if you don’t have an executive sponsor, so if you don’t have the leadership support, then you can run into some roadblocks. Of course. Me, for me personally, I don’t see a downside I’m one to be very open and we encourage as an organization to be very open and upfront with our leaders, our managers, and put it into our performance plan, that we are a part of an employee resource group. And in my case, it was a part of my leadership development leading it. So when it came to performance time, you know, that was something that I talked about as an example. So I think being transparent with your managers in what you are doing and how this is a part, no, it may not be directly a part of your job, but it is a part of the organization, the culture and where you are helping to make a difference more broadly across your organization.

Natasha Tracy (37:38):
Yeah. And I think companies often talk a lot about culture, but this is a way you can actually affect culture and affect it in a positive way. So that’s that’s an amazing gift to a company. Because culture I don’t know, it’s kind of an airy fairy word. It’s hard to grasp. It’s hard to grasp onto, but this is an element of culture that is very much not airy fairy and very much, you know concrete is something you can do. Yes.

Natasha Tracy (38:05):
So also a question made its way into my inbox. Hi Alex. And Alex asked, when do you think you shouldn’t disclose a mental illness at work?

Geralyn Giorgio (38:17):
I think it’s really up to the person. I think this is a very personal topic and it, every situation is going to vary and you have to be ready. Some employees who are even in our, our employee resource group are not comfortable sharing that they have a mental health condition and that’s okay. You know, it has to be come from the person. And, and again, when you are ready, I happen to be very lucky in my role and it wasn’t easy. Believe me, it wasn’t an easy conversation when I came out and said that I had a, a mental health condition. And these are the things that I need to do in order to help myself with this. I found that my leadership was very, very supportive in my journey, which was absolutely amazing. So I, I think it, it really does depend, I don’t know, Natasha, what would you say?

Natasha Tracy (39:19):
I, what I say to people, cuz I’ve been asked this question many times I often say to people, how badly do you need your job? that’s my answer. And I, I’m sorry that that’s my answer, but my answer is how much can you risk with regards to that information? So if this job is a job that you have, and if you don’t have it every single day and have that income coming in, you’re gonna end up homeless. Then that’s a decision you need to take absolutely life and death seriously because this could impact your job. You don’t know. But if this is a job that you do have some flexibility in, or you know, that you’re an employable person and can get a different job or whatever then that, that lowers the stakes a little bit for you. That’s what I usually tell people because I believe it’s about protecting yourself first. I love culture change and I love the idea of this group. And I love when people support each other and talk to each other and that’s all wonderful, but you have to support yourself first. You have to make the decisions that are best for you. And then you can decide how much you wanna participate in some kind of external part of that illness. That’s my personal opinion. And I’ve seen discrimination in the workplace. So I’m maybe a bit biased

Geralyn Giorgio (40:35):
Yeah, no, I think your comment is very fair and, and makes sense. It, it really, again, it just depends on your own personal circumstances,

Natasha Tracy (40:45):
So thank you so much. Geralyn. It’s lovely to leave it there. I’d like to thank you so much from Geralyn Georgio from Johnson and Johnson for sharing your insights with us today and sharing your story with us today. You said it’s not easy. It absolutely isn’t and I respect that greatly.

Natasha Tracy (41:03):
To you, the viewer join us next week. It’ll be at the same time. So 2:00 PM Eastern time and we will be talking to Saskia Lightburn-Richie, who is the CEO of a charity that helps to rid a community of domestic abuse. And she does it while having bipolar disorder. Learn how she created a job for herself as a CEO that works even with a serious mental illness. And don’t forget to drop by the podcast’s website anytime at snapoutofitpodcast.com. My name is Natasha Tracy. I hope you have a great week with great mental health.